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Author Topic: Profiling with an Epson P50 Printer  (Read 36747 times)
EricG
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« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2012, 03:08:38 PM »

I finally got myself a usable profile for my first paper.  I did find the instruction sheet for the paper and used the recommended media setting but printed the original test target with Colour Controls, Epson Standard and Gamma 1.8 set in the printer driver.

I then scanned the print + target using RAW output in Vuescan and made the profile.

Printing several different types of image file using this profile produced very pleasing results and very close to my (profiled but now ageing) CRT Monitor.

Will now try another completely different paper and see how that works out.
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Terry-M
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« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2012, 04:28:39 PM »

Quote
but printed the original test target with Colour Controls, Epson Standard and Gamma 1.8 set in the printer driver..
That is not the correct setting for printing a target or for colour managed printing both must be the same). You must not let the driver interfere with the colour at all.
For an Epson driver, under colour management it should be ICM and ICC/ICM Profile set to OFF.
I'm pretty sure the PP Help tells you this. See screen shot attached, your P50 printer is likely to be similar.
If you use Qimage for printing a target, there's a pre-set JOB that can be re-called such that all the settings for QU are correct too. Another important criteria!
See screen shots attached.
Terry
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Fred A
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« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2012, 05:08:26 PM »

... and to Echo Terry's instructions, I installed the driver for your printer, and attached a screen snap of the driver settings when creating a profile.

Fred
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EricG
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« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2012, 10:13:56 AM »

Thank you both for your input but I tried using NCA and it resulted in very dark images and horrible colour rendition.

The reason I printed the original test target and subsequent images using the Colour Control Setting in the printer driver was that this was stated to be an option in a document I have on tips for using Prism.  I cannot lay my hands on the origin of the document as it is a few years old now but as I stated it does work for me.

I am aware that it is not normal to use double profiling but surely all that is happening here is that the Prism profile is tweaking the Printer Driver profile to adjust it to work with non-Epson inks and paper.

I shall try another completely different paper and see what happens to that.
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Terry-M
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« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2012, 10:23:43 AM »

Hi Eric,
Quote
but surely all that is happening here is that the Prism profile is tweaking the Printer Driver profile to adjust it to work with non-Epson inks and paper.
The danger with having Colour Controls set is that it will not be consistent because the driver may make adjustments that vary with each image.
Quote
I tried using NCA and it resulted in very dark images and horrible colour rendition
I assume you mean the resulting print was dark; I think it was mentioned earlier that this is often because a monitor is too bright so the image gets darkened to look right on screen but the print becomes dark.
Terry
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Terry-M
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« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2012, 10:28:50 AM »

Quote
the Colour Control Setting in the printer driver was that this was stated to be an option in a document I have on tips for using Prism
You are correct; it is Option 2 in PP Help under Printer Driver Settings.
Terry
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Fred A
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« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2012, 10:48:03 AM »

Quote
Thank you both for your input but I tried using NCA and it resulted in very dark images and horrible colour rendition.

The reason I printed the original test target and subsequent images using the Colour Control Setting in the printer driver was that this was stated to be an option in a document I have on tips for using Prism.  I cannot lay my hands on the origin of the document as it is a few years old now but as I stated it does work for me.

I am aware that it is not normal to use double profiling but surely all that is happening here is that the Prism profile is tweaking the Printer Driver profile to adjust it to work with non-Epson inks and paper.

I need to clarify something.
When we say that you should set the driver to no color adjustment, that is what you need BEFORE you print the target.
You select the correct paper, No COLOR ADJUSTMENT, the Quality setting of BEST PHOTO, and using the JOB preset for printing a target, make a target print.
This should be at ORIGINAL SIZE. The print should be 7.92 x 5.77 inches.

Using NO COLOR ADJUSTMENT is exactly what it means. It tells the driver, "Don't mess with the color. My profile is handling it. Don't mess with my color. I don't need double profiling"

Too dark? 
What is too dark. The final print or the target?
PP takes care of the target as long as you tell it my Target image was RAW.

If you did all of the above correctly, and you get a dark print, time to see what the monitor is showing you, and to double check, make a print using either Let Printer manage color as I outlined days ago, or make a print on Epson paper with their profile and see if the same image prints too dark.

Fred

Make your Profile.

NOW, when you make your print using the new profile, you *MUST* set the driver exactly the same way.
Same paper choice, sane print quality, NO COLOR ADJUSTMENT, and the profile must be set in the correct place in Qimage: at the blue ball marked PRTR ICC in Job properties.

I need to clarify that you set No Color Adjustment both times.

Let us know,,,

Fred
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EricG
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« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2012, 12:12:43 PM »

Quote
I tried using NCA and it resulted in very dark images and horrible colour rendition
I assume you mean the resulting print was dark; I think it was mentioned earlier that this is often because a monitor is too bright so the image gets darkened to look right on screen but the print becomes dark.
Terry

I made the original profile on my PC with a profiled CRT Monitor using the NCM settings in the printer Driver and the test print looked OK but when I used the profile the resulting print was very dark.

I then made a new profile using Color Controls, Epson Standard, Gamma 1.8 set both for the test print and subsequent prints using the new profile.  I printed four different images through Photoshop using this profile - a high key portrait taken with a Mamiya RZ and scanned with my Epson 4990, a snapshot of two persons indoors using a Canon Ixus 40 and flash, a Landscape taken with a Pentax Spotmatic and scanned using my Nikon Coolscan LS40 and a close up of some Bluebells taken with a Fuji Finepix S2 Pro.  All of these printed extremely well.

Today I copied and installed the profile on the Laptop and did the same four prints.  Although they looked slighty different on the screen the resulting prints are identical.

The images that I used to test print the profile couldn't have been more diverse and yet they all printed to a close match to the monitor.
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EricG
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« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2012, 03:24:28 PM »

Well, I have just used my Laptop to make a profile for another paper I use - Croppers Photo Matt.  I used the same settings as before but set Epson Matt as the media setting.

Printing the same four photos as before the sheet of four on the Kirkland Glossy were a very, very close match to the same sheet of four printed on the Croppers Matt.  The colours match almost perfectly and any difference in appearance being due to the different surface finish.

The tip on this forum about using Vuescan and performing a RAW scan of the target/test print seems to have worked admirably.

One thing I have noticed is that I have to watch the printer driver settings each time because despite saving my preferred settings it keeps reverting to other settings probably to match the Epson Media setting.
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Terry-M
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« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2012, 05:12:54 PM »

Eric,
Quote
One thing I have noticed is that I have to watch the printer driver settings each time because despite saving my preferred settings it keeps reverting to other settings probably to match the Epson Media setting.
This is in PS I assume?
We'll say again, use QU for all printing.
1. It remembers your last driver settings (when set from within QU)
2. You can save print set ups, everything you need, driver settings, paper size, profile, etc.
See attached screen shot which shows some of my list.
Terry
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EricG
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« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2012, 09:51:42 AM »

[/quote}
This is in PS I assume?
We'll say again, use QU for all printing.
1. It remembers your last driver settings (when set from within QU)
2. You can save print set ups, everything you need, driver settings, paper size, profile, etc.
See attached screen shot which shows some of my list.
Terry
[/quote]

I never did go very deeply into the workings of Qimage.  I seem to recall that I originally purchased it many years ago as a means of converting my RAW Files rather than as a printing application.

I certainly found it great for producing my album snaps (four to an A4 Sheet, or 8 to an A3) but now have them printed at a lab which is much cheaper and they have a greater life expectancy than inkjet prints on my printer.

I shall have another look at using Qimage for my other output and compare the results.
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