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Author Topic: Some questions about printer profiling.  (Read 10891 times)
nickon51
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« on: August 06, 2011, 03:01:57 AM »

I have an older Epson 2000P. I have had it for some time but have never really been happy with the colour quality. I bought profile Prism a number of years ago, but failed to get anything that even remotely resembled a good profile.
The canned Epson Profiles with the correct paper are not too bad, but I would like to take advantage of the newer papers, particularly the 6x4 packs.

Now with Prism 7 I have started again.

I load the bright target file into PS CS3 and the first question is "this image does not have an embedded profile"
What is the correct answer to this question, do not colour manage, assign working profile or assign another Profile?
I'm not sure what it should be. I chose do not colour manage.

In the print setup page, I can choose, Printer manages colour, Photoshop manages colour or no colour management. What is the correct answer here? I chose no colour management. I could choose Printer manages colour as all the managment settings in the printer are turn off.

In the printer dialog box, the paper selected is Glossy Paper Photo weight, which is what I am using. There is Graphic - Photo or fine, I chose photo. Next is ICM Disabled, host or printer, I chose disabled. Overide with presets is off and Microweave is on.
Any comment on those settings?

When I print the Bright Target using PS CS3, at the correct size, everything looks ok, by eye. The dark end squares at the bottom are not blocked up but there is little difference in the first two sets of white squares. It doesn't look too bad.

Now the scanning the printed target and the IT8 target
I use a Canon 8800F with Vuescan.
I am scanning to a raw file, does the scanner profile setting have an effect here. I would have thought not as the output is raw.
The IT8 target scans with only 3 errors, one at each end of the grey scale, and the top patch of column 15.
The printer scan with 30 patches at min/max brightness. These are n the top line where the whites are the same brightness. The printed squares look grainy, It is magnified a lot, but there is a bit too much grain for my liking. Any suggestions there? The histogram does show a small amount of clipping there.

The profile that is created is not as good as the canned epson profile. I am using a photo that has a lot of foliage in it and the light greens are dominant, the brownish leaves are green which they should not be.

So where to from here. I some kind soul could check the procedure I have outlined and suggest whether that is correct or not.

After I load the newly created profile, should I print the test image rather than using a photo? should I reprint and rescan the bright target?

Thanks for any help.

Cheers
Greg Nixon



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Terry-M
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« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2011, 08:15:07 AM »

Hi Greg,
Quote
I load the bright target file into PS CS3
Do you own Qimage? That has a special "Job" for printing targets that looks after many of your questions?
Quote
the first question is "this image does not have an embedded profile" What is the correct answer to this question, do not colour manage, assign working profile or assign another Profile?
I'm not sure what it should be. I chose do not colour manage.
Correct
Quote
In the print setup page, I can choose, Printer manages colour, Photoshop manages colour or no colour management. What is the correct answer here? I chose no colour management. I could choose Printer manages colour as all the management settings in the printer are turn off.
You mean the driver settings? The driver settings should be as they would be for making a normal print with a profile specified, ie. No colour management. You must use exactly the same driver settings for target print and subsequent colour managed photo prints.
Your other settings mentioned seem ok.
Quote
I am scanning to a raw file, does the scanner profile setting have an effect here. I would have thought not as the output is raw.
Correct.
Quote
should I print the test image rather than using a photo
I would use the test photo as it has a full range of colour etc. before trying with real world photos.

Have you tried using the standard target? I know the bright target was made for older Epson printers that tended to print too dark.

Terry
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Fred A
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« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2011, 09:22:07 AM »

Quote
Do you own Qimage? That has a special "Job" for printing targets that looks after many of your questions?
Quote
If I may, adding 2 cents here; one problem that many trip over is the size of the target print.
Please make side that the target print size is 7.92 x 5.77 inches.
Please take Terry's advice and use the preset Qimage Target print job set up.
Even if you do not own it yet, use the demo.

Last additional comment. Not knowing if you are off a little or a lot, have you trued the EDIT mode in Profile Prism?

Now here's what's bothering me.
You state that you want to take advantage of 6 x 4 packs. Epson brand?   If so, the same profile for example, 8.5 x 11 Prem. Glossy Photo Paper works on 6 x 4 PGPP.
But if the 6 x 4 paper is a different brand or type of paper, you will have trouble printing the target.

Fred
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rayw
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« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2011, 01:37:10 PM »

Hi Greg,

It seems the profile you've got is OK. You have to ensure when you print that you use the exact same paper (size does not matter), and the same printer/paper/ink settings as for the profile. Of course, the print will not look like your screen image, unless you have a fully calibrated work flow. You can edit the profiles generated by profile prism, but If it is the same test image as used on the older versions, then there is not enough natural scenery (e.g. trees, grass, sky etc.) to be able to set those colours as easily as for skin tones, imho. It will probably be simplest if you try to match the white balance of your monitor to that of your paper, generally monitors are too bright.

If you want to get picky, then take a photo of your test chart, print it, scan it in with the original test chart, then using a colour picker, (not set to single pixel) to see how the colours vary. Of course, that will show other 'errors', such as reflections, uneven lighting, camera exposure and white balance settings (but you can fiddle with those in ps),  but it eliminates most problems associated with an incorrectly set monitor. In other words, if you get the colour patches more or less to the same values, then your problem is with how your monitor is displaying the colours of your image compared to how it is printed.

(Hopefully you are not forgetting to convert your image from pro-photo or whatever, to the colour space used in printing. The image you print needs to be within the gamut of the printer, and the rendering intent set correctly - you'll have some wonderful colour changes if you get that wrong. Wink)

Best wishes,

Ray

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nickon51
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« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2011, 10:47:24 AM »

Good evening all and thanks for your replies.

@Terry-M: No I don't have Qimage, but I will download the trial and compare the profile results.
The print setup page that I was referring to is the print setup page within Photoshop. I still am not sure what is correct there. I would normally choose "PhotoShop Manages Colour" and then type in the appropriate printer profile.
The print driver settings that I use are "No Colour Management" which excludes ICM, sRGB, PhotoEnhanced4 and colour controls. You have confirmed that is correct.
I will print the test image and use that for comparison. I have printed the normal target but the bright target works better I think. This printer would fall into the category of older Epson printers.
Thanks for your help

@Fred A Yes, the printed file is the correct size. Yes I have tried the edit mode, but using a photo instead of the test image is not the way to go about it. I will print the test image and use that to tweak the settings.
6x4 Premium Glossy Photo Paper? Thats where the problem is. Epson does not have a profile for that paper. The only Profiles for the 2000P are: Archival Matte, Premium Semigloss Photo Paper, Glossy Paper Photo Weight. Added later were: Premium Lustre Paper and Water Colour Paper Radiant White. I think the others were left out because the paper and pigment ink combinations did not meet the lightfast specs. The Epson 2000P was the first Epson printer to use pigment inks, but things have moved on a lot since then.

@rayw I think what you are telling me here is to use my normal colour space, like Adobe RGB, to view the test image and then print the image using the new profile that I just created with Prism. Thats good advice.

Thank you all for your input, I'll have another shot at it.

Cheers
Greg
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daniellouwrens
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« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2011, 06:16:44 PM »

"@Terry-M: No I don't have Qimage, but I will download the trial and compare the profile results."

Qimage and Qimage Ultimate work extremely well with PP but also have so much more to offer for
image modification, colour (the most accurate available IMHO), density, sharpening, cleaning etc, I use PSCS almost never, (only when I
need to remove and replace backgrounds or similar).

Cheers

Daniel
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