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Author Topic: Camera specific profiles for raw images  (Read 12702 times)
drjim
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« on: September 20, 2017, 02:50:41 AM »

Are there camera specific profiles for pre-processing raw files?
I lookes,under edit preferences and get a template but the custom button
Points to an empty directory.
How does this work?
I just acquired a Canon t2i and have a bunch of raw images.

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Terry-M
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« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2017, 06:40:20 AM »

Quote
I looked,under edit preferences and get a template but the custom button
Points to an empty directory.
That directory is where your raw setting preferences are saved: sharpening, noise reduction etc. Start off with the default settings and see how you get on. I leave smart colour un-ticked. Make sure "Enable Custom Profiles" is ticked because one is available for your camera. NB. the T2i is also known as a EOS 550D. When you hover your mouse over a thumb, the exif hot bar at the bottom of the screen will show the profile associated with the image and you should see EOS 550D.icm. It's not embedded in the raw image; embedded profiles such as for jpeg's and tif will show * .... * indicating it's embedded.
Terry
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Terry-M
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« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2017, 08:48:59 AM »

Fred did a "challenge" and video on this very subject!
See here, video link is on the post -
http://ddisoftware.com/tech/qimage-ultimate-challenges/challenge-80-the-mystery-of-the-qsn-file/msg21199/#msg21199
Terry
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drjim
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« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2017, 07:44:35 PM »

i dont get that data on the screen bottom.

I looked directly into the profile directory and there are lotsa .icm files but non
t for either REBEL T2i or 550D.

I made a change to the settings and saved it as EOS REBEL T2i. This made
a qsn file. But when i reloaded it the settings did not change.

I dont quite get it.

Also whats the difference between .icm and .qsm files?

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Terry-M
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« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2017, 07:17:44 AM »

Quote
i dont get that data on the screen bottom.
Are you using full screen? Is your mouse over a thumbnail? See attached screen shot.
Quote
I made a change to the settings and saved it as EOS REBEL T2i. This made
a qsn file. But when i reloaded it the settings did not change.
Try doing this with a thumb selected so QU "knows" what camera was used from the exif data.
Quote
Also whats the difference between .icm and .qsm files?
.qsn is a custom file extension for QU and it's used for the saved raw preferences.
ICM (Image color management) and ICC extensions are for colour profiles made to the International Color Consortium standards. They define the colour space of an image, camera, printer etc. "Color management" is a process where the color characteristics for every device in the imaging chain is known precisely and utilized in color reproduction"
This may be helpful for CM understanding http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/color-management1.htm
QU is a colour management aware program.

Terry

« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 08:50:33 AM by Terry-M » Logged
Terry-M
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« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2017, 08:48:50 AM »

Two more points to note.
The exif hot bar needs be on in Edit preferences, 2nd from bottom in drop down list.
When you change raw preference, you are asked if you want to re-build thumbs - if there are many, don't bother, just right click on ones you are currently dealing with and select rebuild thumbs.
Terry

PS. Check this Challenge post with the video again:
http://ddisoftware.com/tech/qimage-ultimate-challenges/challenge-80-the-mystery-of-the-qsn-file/
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 09:31:37 AM by Terry-M » Logged
drjim
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« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2017, 12:29:40 PM »

I am full screen.
Exif bar is enabled
I am over the thumbnail .cr2
Exif says adbobe.icm not EOS 550D
(That file isn't in my install)

 
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Terry-M
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« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2017, 12:55:38 PM »

Hi again,
Quote
Exif says adobe.icm not EOS 550D
In Raw preferences, in the Working Color Space section you need to have Enable Custom Profile ticked. The default is Adobe. See attached screenshot.
NB. The 550D and other Canon dslr's have multiple names, T2i is one but I think the exif is always (for US & Europe) the 550D version. Just be aware of that. See second screen shot.
I think I said before, raw files do not have a profile embedded so there'll be no asterisks around the profile name in the exif hot bar.
Terry
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drjim
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« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2017, 03:19:48 PM »

NB no files for the eos550d aka t21 aka rebel t2i exist in my installation.

Attached are screenshots of the directory programdata/qimage/profiles

I cover the three alphabetical regions. They are nowhere to be found.
There are over 100 profiles but strangly the 550d is missing.

Your screen shot and qimage website say it should be there. It just isnt.

Is there a download to fix this?

Jim V
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drjim
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« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2017, 03:44:45 PM »

Im ready to scream. Is 256K the total for four?
The last try
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drjim
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« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2017, 03:45:57 PM »

the other two snaps
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Fred A
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« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2017, 05:01:55 PM »

Quote
Your screen shot and qimage website say it should be there. It just isnt.

Is there a download to fix this?

Jim V
Terry must be out so I'll try to help.
Aside from the camera distortion list, there are two lists pertaining to your new camera.
One list that terry showed was to let the user know that your T2i is covered for decoding and Qimage use.
The second list (from Website) shows the cameras for which camera profiles were generated .
Your T2i is not included on that list.
That means that so far no one has taken target shots to create the profile.
There is no stored camera profiles until someone takes the trouble to shoot the targets.

See Terry on specifics. He got a camera about 2 years ago (Canon 600D). I seem to recall Terry creating a profile, but luckily he had his IT-8 target from his Profiler, Profile Prism.

So summarizing, the qsn file where you adjust presets does not need a camera profile so that works fine. Just remember to rebuild the thumbs in question after making changes.
The Adobe colorspace is excellent and you aren't missing a great deal between it and the camera profile.

Fred
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drjim
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« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2017, 06:27:59 PM »

I really have no clue anymore.
The camera forces sRGB in simple modes
It can be changed in advanced modes.

When is this distinction actually applied?
  .. In the camera when making jpegs?
 ..When Raw files are processed?

What does qimage do when preprocessing without the profile?
 ..When does it actually use the .qsn file?

My attempts to modify and save the raw prefs did create a .qsn file
but reloading it has zero effect even with a raw thumbnail selected.

 I've watched your video. It has little to do with the mechanical problems Im encountering.


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Terry-M
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« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2017, 07:13:26 PM »

Good questions actually!

Quote
The camera forces sRGB in simple modes
It can be changed in advanced modes.
When is this distinction actually applied?
  .. In the camera when making jpegs?
 ..When Raw files are processed?
That only applies to camera jpeg images not raw images - they are not processed by the camera, hence "raw".
Quote
What does qimage do when preprocessing without the profile?
 ..When does it actually use the .qsn file?
When there is no camera profile, Adobe RGB colour space is used.
When a raw image is loaded into QU it uses the qsn file parameters to process the raw file, noise reduction and sharpening are probably the most significant. Next set smart exposure, auto fill and black point so QU produces the best initial result. Raw refine can then be used to tweak.
Quote
My attempts to modify and save the raw prefs did create a .qsn file
but reloading it has zero effect even with a raw thumbnail selected.
You will not see any real changes from the thumbnail. You'd have to look at the image in detail (Image examiner right click on thumb) so see difference, ideally using 2 copies of same image, converted to a good quality jpeg or a tif.
I suggest you leave the noise reduction and sharpening at default but have smart exposure etc. (as above) set.
Have you watched the Learning Videos for raw images? The QU GUI has changes since these were made but the principles are the same.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/JBQPJw-ana8
https://www.youtube.com/embed/88jb-__8cmo
https://www.youtube.com/embed/qjkASfTzfFA
There may be some later videos than these - I'll ask Fred.
Terry







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Fred A
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« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2017, 07:35:15 PM »

Quote
When is this distinction actually applied?
  .. In the camera when making jpegs?
 ..When Raw files are processed?

The camera processes JPGS using RGB or Adobe as the color space. It also sharpens and adjusts the image as best it can before placing it on your card.
The Raw image has no color space. It is selected and applied at the time of processing by software.
Qimage supplies a high quality Adobe color space as default.

Quote
What does qimage do when preprocessing without the profile?
 ..When does it actually use the .qsn file?

My attempts to modify and save the raw prefs did create a .qsn file
but reloading it has zero effect even with a raw thumbnail selected.

Qimage defaults to Adobe color space when no specific camera profile is provided.
It uses the QSN file just before it builds the thumb and the cache file.
That is why in order to see any adjustments you made in QSN, you must rebuild the thumbnail that you want to see the change.
You  accomplish this by right click on the thumb (the one you say you do not see a change) and locate the selection REBUILD THUMB of selected image.
You say "EVEN WITH THUMB SELECTED you  do not see any change. "  You must acyually rebuild that thumb, and it will use the QSN file that you set for it.
Did you see the video with the noisy cat?

Hope this helps.
Fred
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