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Author Topic: color correction - WB vs Saturations  (Read 7541 times)
bill hansen
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« on: March 26, 2015, 12:28:26 AM »

Qimage 2015.120 - Printer is Epaon Artisan 1430 - monitor calibrated with Spyder3Pro -  

FWIW - I see the I'm marked as a newbie. I've been printing photo images from digital files for about 15 years now, and have been using various versions of Qimage for at least 12-13 years. But the problem I have now is new to me, so here I go -

I recently decided to switch from Epson inks to Cone dye inks, which are marketed as "interchangeable" with Epson dye inks. It turns out they aren't interchangeable at all. Their color balance is far different from that of Epson inks. My printer profiling system isn't working at the moment, but the pre-made printer profiler (from the Epson 1430 driver) is somewhere in the ballpark. I was hoping that I could make adjustments in Qimage to compensate for the Cone inks's differences, but I haven't been able to do that.

The color balance of the Cone inks is shifted far toward the blue end and also has too much red. I'd think that decreasing the saturation of Blue and Red would bring prints closer to correct color, but even large movements in saturation (as much as 17-20) have essentially no effect. I've tried Select Colors, with the same almost indistinguishable results.

If I'm using the Saturations, is it proper to just decrease the sat of Blue, for example? Or if I decrease Blue, should I be increasing the sat of Yellow by the same amount I decrease Blue?

If I am using the Select Colors, what exactly should happen when I decrease Blue to 0.7 instead of 1.0? Should there be less blue color in the print, as I'd expect? Or does decreasing Blue do something other than decreasing the amount of Blue in the print?

If I'm using Select Colors, must I increase Yellow by the same amount as I decrease Blue, to notice any color change in prints?

All of this would be purely academic, except that I was getting very good prints from the Epson inks. But now I'm stuck with Cone inks, and no way to compensate for the different color balance.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 12:31:20 AM by bill hansen » Logged
BrianPrice
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« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2015, 08:59:24 AM »

Bill
I don't think you will ever get it right using colour corrections of any form. You need a proper profile, either one done yourself or a custom profile. There are Cone profiles available on-line - see

http://www.conecolor.com/icc/Epson1430.html

If I had to try to correct it, I would use curves.

Brian
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Fred A
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« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2015, 09:10:41 AM »

Quote
Qimage 2015.120 - Printer is Epaon Artisan 1430 - monitor calibrated with Spyder3Pro -  

FWIW - I see the I'm marked as a newbie. I've been printing photo images from digital files for about 15 years now, and have been using various versions of Qimage for at least 12-13 years. But the problem I have now is new to me, so here I go -

I recently decided to switch from Epson inks to Cone dye inks, which are marketed as "interchangeable" with Epson dye inks. It turns out they aren't interchangeable at all. Their color balance is far different from that of Epson inks. My printer profiling system isn't working at the moment, but the pre-made printer profiler (from the Epson 1430 driver) is somewhere in the ballpark. I was hoping that I could make adjustments in Qimage to compensate for the Cone inks's differences, but I haven't been able to do that.

The color balance of the Cone inks is shifted far toward the blue end and also has too much red. I'd think that decreasing the saturation of Blue and Red would bring prints closer to correct color, but even large movements in saturation (as much as 17-20) have essentially no effect. I've tried Select Colors, with the same almost indistinguishable results.

If I'm using the Saturations, is it proper to just decrease the sat of Blue, for example? Or if I decrease Blue, should I be increasing the sat of Yellow by the same amount I decrease Blue?

If I am using the Select Colors, what exactly should happen when I decrease Blue to 0.7 instead of 1.0? Should there be less blue color in the print, as I'd expect? Or does decreasing Blue do something other than decreasing the amount of Blue in the print?

If I'm using Select Colors, must I increase Yellow by the same amount as I decrease Blue, to notice any color change in prints?

All of this would be purely academic, except that I was getting very good prints from the Epson inks. But now I'm stuck with Cone inks, and no way to compensate for the different color balance.


Hi Bill,
Wow, I feel for you.
"Newbie" moniker is based on how many posts to make on the forum, not how long you have Qimage. I think it might be 100 that changes it. I really can't remember.

OK To ink.
I assume when you play with saturation numbers, you are applying minus numbers. You can tweak in there.... My problem would be that the blues are usually a mysterious mix of blue and cyan, so I would work them together.
The Select Color, in simple terms, going from 1.0 to 0.7 would be a blue with a value 200 multiplied by either a 1.0 (staying the same) or multiplied by 0.7 which would change the blue value to 140, essentially darkening it.

All the above aside, and it should be aside for two substantial reasons....

1) See screen snap.  If you want to mess with the colors, I would do it in the driver where you have sliders for each color.
I would not mess up my image so it looks crappy if I email it, or make a tif or jpg. A year from now, you might flip back and wonder what you were drinking that day.

2) I assume you cannot or will not flush the printer and go back to Epson ink, so I would recommend going this route.
Go on line, and find a company that makes custom printer profiles. There are many to choose from.
Let them make a profile for you for the paper type that you use most.
Usually in the 35.00 price range.

You will waste 35.00 in paper getting a decent print with trial and error.
Then you have the complexities of color mixing by the driver... You might tweak colors to get Print A looking good, but Print B looks awful..

Best answer: Flush the system and get Epson ink, or get a couple of profiles made.

Hope some of this helps..
Maybe Terry has some extra ideas, or some of the other folks with experience.
Fred


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bill hansen
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« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2015, 12:23:28 PM »

Thanks for your replies. With the Epson inks I used until a few days ago, neither the profile which came with the printer driver, nor the professionally made profile I had made by GreatPrinterProfiles (Michael Gordon) was "perfect", but tweaks of the brightness and saturations in Q Ult worked well. Now, with the Cone inks, tweaks aren't working at all. My assumption was that I the seemingly "obvious" (to me) way corrections would work in Q is not, in fact, they way they work. Example - decreasing saturation of Blue in Q - does it really decrease the amount of  Blue in the print? Apparently not. Same with Selective Color in Q - does decreasing Blue from its default of 1.0 to 0.7 really decrease the amount of blue in the print?

I think you're right Fred - I'll need to go back to Epson inks. The Cone inks are much less expensive, and many people report excellent results with them, but I'm not going to get those excellent results. I'm very disappointed in the Cone inks.

My own profile making system, SpyderPRINT, does an excellent job of making profiles once the profile has been "tweaked" several times, but the sensor is apparently bricked, and I haven't had a reply to my letter to DataColor, the manufacturer.

If I don't hear back from DataColor within a couple more days, I'll probably have Michael Gordon make a custom profile for Cone inks, rather than waste the Cone inks I have.

Bill
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bill hansen
Jr. Member
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Posts: 54


« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2015, 01:18:33 PM »

To Brian - Thanks for pointing out the Cone 1430 profiles. Unfortunately they're for pigment inks, while the 1430 uses dye inks by default, and I was trying to substitute Cone dye inks. I'll keep the Cone profiles in mind, if I decide to switch to Cone pigment inks, which I may do. If I can't get my own profiling system to work today or tomorrow, I'll order a set of professionally made profiles from GreatPrinterProfiles.

Bill
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tonygamble
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« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2015, 04:29:40 PM »

I'll just chuck in a vote for Profile Prism.

I have found it works every time for me.

As to whether you want to invest the money and time on learning it depends on how often you expect to change your ink, paper or printer. For me the problem is that I use it so rarely that I have to dig out the instructions whenever I do - but they are easy to follow and it keeps the brain cells flowing around!!

Tony
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