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Author Topic: Color cast  (Read 1714 times)
mspil
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« on: February 03, 2023, 03:35:50 AM »

Good day all,
I have recently begun using Qimage ultimate, and am beset with a problem whereby all my prints exhibit a strong magenta cast.  If I revert to printing from ACDsee, the color rendition is almost perfect.   I am using an Epson XP-970 printer, though I cannot imagine that is relevant to my problem, as it produces the desired prints when used per ACDsee.  Can anyone please offer a solution ?
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Fred A
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« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2023, 07:05:14 AM »

Quote
Good day all,
I have recently begun using Qimage ultimate, and am beset with a problem whereby all my prints exhibit a strong magenta cast.  If I revert to printing from ACDsee, the color rendition is almost perfect.   I am using an Epson XP-970 printer, though I cannot imagine that is relevant to my problem, as it produces the desired prints when used per ACDsee.  Can anyone please offer a solution ?
   

The first question is: What paper, and most important, what profile are you using. That printer driver does not come with profiles.
What driver settings are you using with regard to color.
What is in the Qimage profile box in the setup panel? Does it say OFF or Let printer driver handle  color?
Did you have profiles made? If not, we have to set the driver properly.
Fred

PS This is from Epson's suggestion page

As ICC profiles are ink. paper, printer related - this service involves sending a printed chart so we can make an ICC profile using your inks paper and printer it is not a download service. Once received we usually make the ICC profiles same day.
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mspil
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« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2023, 11:23:48 AM »

Thank you for your response.  To take your points in order:

I am using Canon Photo Paper Plus Glossy, and have selected 'Photo Paper Glossy' in the printer settings.
The profile box is set to 'Let printer driver handle color'.
I have no profiles made.  The printer Color Management is set to ICM.  There is no Host ICM option available, as was suggested in your pop-up window when I looked into Printer properties.  I hope this helps you to understand where I'm at.   I should add that my understanding of creating profiles is precisely zero.
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Fred A
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« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2023, 12:10:57 PM »

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I am using Canon Photo Paper Plus Glossy, and have selected 'Photo Paper Glossy' in the printer settings.
The profile box is set to 'Let printer driver handle color'.
I have no profiles made.  The printer Color Management is set to ICM
See attached images.
If you are set to the same, and Let driver manage color shows in Qimage profiles, you should be fine,  If it still is magenta, then we wait for Mike.
Fred
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admin
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« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2023, 02:47:17 PM »

First, let's try this:

Instead of using "Let printer/driver manage color", lets do things the "right" way.  Your XP-970 driver installs profiles for all paper types so let's use those:

  • Select your XP-970 and then your media type: Photo Paper Glossy
  • Drop down "Printer profile" and choose "Suggest printer profiles"
  • Qimage will find the "Epson XP-970 Photo Glossy" profile and it should already be selected at the top of the list so...
  • Just make sure that is the one selected (it should be) and click the "Open" button
  • On the next window, just confirm that "Relative Colorimetric" and "Black Point Compensation" are checked and then click OK

Run another test print under this setup and see if the magenta cast is gone.

If not, read below:

If you are using the correct paper for the settings you are using, Qimage will generate accurate color so we probably have to look at the image you are printing. What type of image(s) are you printing and where did they come from?  If they are raw images, for example, every raw converter will develop them differently.  Or, maybe ACDSee is not picking up the embedded profile in the image and Qimage is.

So let's take a look at what images you are printing.  ACDSee also doesn't have any type of driver AI or any tools to help you get driver settings correct so you can basically set things up any way you like, including incorrectly.  And believe it or not, sometimes you can accidentally land on a print result you like better by having the wrong settings, particularly when you are doing what you are doing: using an off-brand paper (Canon) with an Epson!  So that is a possibility as well.
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Fred A
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« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2023, 03:49:19 PM »

Quote
That printer driver does not come with profiles.
What driver settings are you using with regard to color.
I stand corrected. That printer does come with profiles. I googled it and read one report that there were none.
Sorry,
Fred
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mspil
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« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2023, 12:01:05 PM »

Re Fred's reply:  I have checked the screenshots he posted, and they are identical to my settings.
Re Admin's reply:  I have followed the steps enumerated, and my settings were correct.  Tried another print, with no improvement in the result.  I found some Epson matte paper, so changed the paper type in the printer settings and made a test print,but with no better result, so I am ruling out the possibility that the Canon paper is a contributing factor.
The images I am printing are from a Leica CL in Raw format, giving me DNG files. I post process in ACDSee, and save the result as a Tif file. 
I then convert the color profile from sRGB IE61996-2.1 to Adobe RGB (1998).  (My assumption being that this will give me a wider color range at the printer).  In ACDSee, this conversion process has a drop-down box headed 'Rendering Intent".  It is set to 'Perceptual', but has other options, namely 'Relative Colormetric, Saturation, and Absolute Colormetric.
Does any of this throw light on the situation?  I feel that I am flailing about without knowing what I am doing, or why I am doing it.
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admin
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« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2023, 12:39:10 PM »

There's an extra color conversion in there.  Saving as sRGB and then converting to Adobe RGB isn't going to expand your colors.  That's like leading 100 people into a room with 100 chairs and assigning them seats, then pushing the 4 walls outward to make the room bigger.  Everyone is still going to be sitting in their assigned seats within the area of the original small room so it's just going to look like a bunch of people cramped into a small area in a really big room.  When you save your TIFF from the raw, just save it in Adobe RGB to begin with.

Or better yet, just print the raw directly from Qimage (and refine the raw if needed).  Qimage will likely give you more accurate color from the raw than ACDSee anyway.  Why is ACDSee in the equation anyway; seems like an extra/unneeded step.

Mike
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MelW
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« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2023, 05:40:56 PM »

Just an ignorant 2 cents worth here, but this sure sounds like double profiling.  Please make sure that you have Driver AI turned on!
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mspil
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« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2023, 11:56:17 AM »

Regarding  the advice re color conversion, I have dug deeper into the ACDSee system that I am using.  (I did mention that I was largely ignorant of how the program works)!  I have used ACDSee for a couple of years, and found it a simple way to post process. However, my use of Qimage has now led me to a new understanding of what is happening in the background of ACDSee.  The program allows two methods of post processing DNG files, either 'Develop' or 'Edit'. I have been using the edit option.  After processing, this option does not allow changes to be saved as DNG, so I have saved them as Tif, which in turn allows them to be saved without a profile attached, or with an sRGB profile.  In my ignorant state, I saved them with the sRGB profile, and then converted them to RGB 1998 as a further step. Since my discussions on this forum, I have investigated the 'Develop' option, and found that it allows me to save my changes as DNG files with the RGB 1998 profile attached.  This is giving me a resulting file that prints well in ACDSee, and much better in Qimage. I no longer have the excessive magenta cast that caused my query in the first place, and now have a much greater understanding of what goes on behind the scenes. 
I am reluctant to use Qimage itself for my post production, as it lack some of the controls I find useful, such as Perspective Control, and  the Repair Tool options. Also, I find its ability to selectively adjust the various color channels by means of slider controls to be very intuitive.

My grateful thanks to you all for your assistance. I am equipped now, I believe, to print with much greater confidence, and greater expectations of success.  Smiley
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