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Author Topic: uneven borders  (Read 8336 times)
johnprichard
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« on: March 17, 2010, 01:50:00 PM »

I am having a difficult time printing a 2:3 aspect (no crop) into a 8x10 print using 8.5x11 paper. I even upgraded to Studio to get the rulers thinking this would help more (it does but not enough to make me confident). If I use border1 and background and a calculator, I can get a reasonably balanced look to be inserted into a simple store bought frame (if I remember to account for 0.2 used by the frame itself).

The problem with this is that it uses way too much ink on the part I will be cutting away. If the vertical and horizontal borders could be different this would be an easy thing. I have been trying to develop a style that allows me to move between different aspects (2:3, 3:4, 4:5) into an 8x10 print using 8.5x11 paper. I have been unreliable. Looked at crop marks and templates with two borders but really haven't "got" it yet ... the convenience of automatic scaling stings me often.

I have read in this forum about frame cutouts but really don't have any documentation as to how to make one and still they are within the borders of the print so I am not sure how this would help to not print ink where I don't need it.

Are their templates out there that do something like this? or frame cutouts?

John
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rayw
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« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2010, 02:01:46 PM »

Hi John,

I've not had time to try this out, but I think if you make a white image, the size of the frame, and put on the crop edges, and save it, then if you recall it as required as a sort of template, you can overlay the image you want, crop it to the size you need to print (to fit in the matte cut-out). This can actually be positioned exactly where you want on top of the white image, and then the whole thing can be printed.

hth,

Best wishes,

Ray
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Terry-M
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« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2010, 04:11:46 PM »

Hi John,
Quote
If the vertical and horizontal borders could be different this would be an easy thing.
No, this is not possible using the Borders feature in Qimage I'm afraid   Sad
I'm having a little difficulty in visualising what you are trying to achieve.
When you talk about "borders" are you referring to the Border 1 and 2 feature in Qimage, or merely the white space between the edge of the print and the edge of the paper?
Are you wanting, for example, to have the image part of the print, offset towards the top of the paper?
Quote
The problem with this is that it uses way too much ink on the part I will be cutting away.
Not sure what you mean here, please explain further. Are you talking about cutting off some of the border, is it white or  coloured?
Perhaps you could post an attachment image of what you want to do, a picture paints a thousand words!

Quote
the convenience of automatic scaling stings me often.
What do you mean by this?

Sorry about all the questions, but I'm just trying to understand the problem so we can give good help.

Just to clarify,
Quote
I have read in this forum about frame cutouts but really don't have any documentation
There is information in Help under Features and Cutouts. There a number of Cutouts and Frames (a special version of a Cutout) already supplied with Qimage.
Quote
and still they are within the borders of the print
That is so, they become part of the image.
What Ray has said about using a blank image behind the main image is possible and something I have done. Come back if you need more help on this, in fact come back anyway so we can sort you out  Wink
Terry.
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johnprichard
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« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2010, 04:55:35 PM »

The effect I am looking for is the same as what you do with a matte. You elegantly adapt a different aspect ratio picture to a store size frame. Of course this is on a smaller scale using printed borders since an 8x10 is not a lot of real estate to work with.

So maybe a 2:3 which would be about a 5.88 x 8.82 (this part figured out by the auto scaling). This is surrounded by about a 0.17 border1. Then a selected bigger border which doesn't get tripped up by the auto-scaling and the actual page size which is very hard to do. I was using background color for this other "border2" since it was independent of the process. BUT using background color uses too much ink since I intend to cut this to an 8x10.

So yes, I am trying to white mask outside the 8x10 boundaries. Since another 0.2 also tucks under the 8x10 frame and doesn't contribute to the visuals it gets rather complicated.

I tried Ray's suggestion.

I created a 8x10x300ppi white blank in Photoshop. I put the white image in the queue and added a black 0.2 internal border to account for any picture frame inconsistencies. It has guide lines for cutting which is great. Then I added an image at the 8x10 size thinking to shrink it visually in the full page editor after adding an internal border. Unfortunately you can see only one image in the editor. Then I realized I don't know how to keep these from printing on their own pages instead of both on the same page.

Here is a 2:3 that I was going to print up and into an 8x10 frame for a week ... we have 4 easy-to-swap-pic 8x10's throughout our house that I keep my wife appraised as to my current favorites of the week. So I replace them quite often to keep my family happy. http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnprichard/4407444097/  Thus a need for an easy way. The good ones are big, printed in a lab, and matted if they are going on a wall.

My flickr site has many 2:3 examples http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnprichard

John
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Terry-M
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« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2010, 05:41:06 PM »

Hi John,
I think I've got it right, you are placing (for a 2:3 image) a 6.22"x9.16" image within a 8x10 "frame". This leaves 0.89 white top & bottom, 0.42 at each side.
You need the 10x8 dimension shown on the print to aid trimming to fit the frame. For simplicity I've ignored your allowance for that part hidden by the frame.

From your description, I thinks Ray's suggestion is one way of doing it.
Starting with this query,
Quote
Then I realized I don't know how to keep these from printing on their own pages instead of both on the same page.
Before you add the second image, select Freehand placement mode by clicking the little F top right of the page preview and then add the second image by dragging the thumb to the preview. Both images will be on the same page.
Quote
Then I added an image at the 8x10 size thinking to shrink it visually in the full page editor after adding an internal border. Unfortunately you can see only one image in the editor.
In the Full Page editor, select the visible image (background), right click and choose send to back. Because you are in freehand mode, you will need to position the images on the page manually by selecting and dragging then for precise positioning and with the Size/Loc tab in use, use the arrow keys to move small amounts and read the location dimensions to check the position.
You could use the "background"  8x10 image to create a second coloured border; the colour would then cover only that visible when in the frame.

I still don't know what you mean by this
Quote
Then a selected bigger border which doesn't get tripped up by the auto-scaling
In Qimage you specify print size in linear dimensions, crop on or off to fit within or fill the specified size. Borders are specified as linear dimensions, either to keep the overall print size as specified (B) or to add to the specified print size (B+). There's no "auto scaling" or tripping up, you specify what you want and you get it, within the constraint of having equal borders on all 4 sides.
Tell me if I'm missing your point  Wink
Terry.



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johnprichard
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« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2010, 10:08:52 PM »

This looks like it is going to work for me. Thanks Terry and Ray.

Terry, When in the editor I put in one dimension and apply it to selected and it scales the image keeping the aspect ratio the same if I say no crop. This wonderful software knows that adding a border internally will not be a perfect linear reduction on both axis of the picture ... it's close but not exact. Thus without doing the math you can get tripped up by the details. By tripped up, I mean unexpected behavior not incorrect behavior.

Thanks,
John
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johnprichard
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« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2010, 06:03:22 PM »

This method works great. I will go through the steps so it is in one post. To make an uneven border, create a white blank image whose outside edge is the size of the far outside edge.

After you load the white blank into the queue, you click the "freehand" button and then drag the real image thumbnail onto the white blank. Then go to the full page editor. If the white is covering the image then right click it and send it to the back. I just used center to get the white blank located in the center of my 8.5x11 paper. Every time you click the image you select between the two pieces.

To do a proper sizing: First put an internal 0.2" border onto the white blank to help visualize what will be hidden under the actual picture frame. Otherwise when you eyeball the real image in you will be influenced by something that is hidden later. Click image to go to the other piece.

Then put whatever border(s) on the actual image and freehand size it into the white blank ignoring the part that goes under the frame. For radically different aspect ratios you have to get a visual balance top to bottom on how much to show (also different for portrait vs landscape) ... just like when you matte. Be sure and recheck/resize the size of your white blank ... it seems to change on occasion ... maybe I am touching it when I drag to size the image. Now, if you intend to have two borders, a thin one surrounding the picture and the second padding the space to the frame (uneven border) then you can make the border on the white blank arbitrarily large to underlap the image or you can delete the white blank border and use a large second border2 on the actual image.

Much harder to explain than to just do it. Works great. Thanks to Terry and Ray.
John
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Terry-M
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« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2010, 06:25:32 PM »

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This method works great. I will go through the steps so it is in one post.
Thanks John. There's nothing to beat hands on learning and trying things for yourself - with just a little help from your friends  Wink Not only that, you saved me doing a really detailed explanation  Roll Eyes

Your next step is to make a template for each of the image size/aspect ratios you want to use so next time it's just a question of loading the picture image and all done in a few seconds  Cool
Terry.
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BrianPrice
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« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2010, 10:31:44 AM »

Hi
I've come to this thread late, but on my printer (Epson R285) I can set a custom page size of 10 x 8". This eliminates the need for a second image, and you would only need a single .2" border and a background colour. Only the 10x8 image will be printed on the A4 page.

Brian
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Terry-M
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« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2010, 04:56:52 PM »

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I can set a custom page size of 10 x 8". This eliminates the need for a second image,
Well done Brian  Cool I think what you say would work for John.
There's often an easier way, which the rest of us missed this time. The same thing works on  my R800 too. You have to watch and allow for the actual printable area and the margins which is about 0.125" (3mm) on each side with an Epson. Easy enough when defining the custom page size.
Terry.
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