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Author Topic: Paper Dry Time vs Cure Time  (Read 22990 times)
wingspar
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« on: July 29, 2009, 05:25:26 PM »

A post in another thread got me to start this thread.  Iíve used the Epson Premium Semi-gloss paper for years.  Prints come off the printer dry to the touch, but the documentation that comes with the paper says that it takes 24 hours for the ink to cure, so Iíve always waited 24 hours before mailing prints, or letting the customer come by and pick them up.  Is this necessary, or can I deliver them within an hour or two after the prints come off the printer?
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Gary
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Fred A
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« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2009, 07:41:02 PM »

Gary,
That is a great question.
I can only relate some experiences, but I'm sure there are others with chemical knowledge of the coating/ink interaction.
That would likely be better than my post.
Nevertheless, I found out about curing time and color curing and the final setting of the colors when I was really hot into Profiling my own printer/papers, and trying out many less expensive store brands like Office Depot paper etc.
I had to print the target for the initial scan for PROFILE PRISM, the software that makes the best home brew profiles.
(I am not going to touch the expensive colorimeter type of hardware that you can buy (well over a thou) as that is not in my budget)
I am usually like a kid, well, I am a kid, and always will be.... and I can't wait.  You know, "are we there yet? are we there yet" type.
So I print the target using the paper, and wait a reasonable amount of time (like 3 minutes, blow on it, and scan.
After making the profile, next day, I printed a second print of the target, and that was left overnight. I could actually see the reds were totally different from the 3 minute print, although they looked alike now after 24 hours.
I made a second profile using the cured print and it was far better, and it matched.
I experimented some more with other papers, and not all papers changed color over night.
Epson Prem glossy did not, and Ilford Gallerie Smooth gloss did not either.

Bottom line, in my way of thinking, when I need to be serious about quality, I would wait the overnight cure time to be sure.

One last comment. I think it was one of our own posters on the forum here, Jack Winberg that told me to use a hair dryer (gentle heat applied to the emulsion) to speed the "curing" time. If memory serves me, I think we had good luck doing that.

Maybe Jack will chime in if he reads this.

Best
Fred
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kieranmullen
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« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2009, 07:46:10 AM »

I picked up a Xrite DTP20UV Colorpulse Elite off of ebay for about $150  This is still a model in production.
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Fred A
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« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2009, 09:44:32 AM »

That's a spectrophotometer; man they have come down... Couldn't touch one 5 years ago for less than 1200.
That was a great deal.
Fred
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kieranmullen
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« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2009, 11:26:23 PM »

New are still that price
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Seth
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« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2009, 05:44:28 PM »

Quote
Bottom line, in my way of thinking, when I need to be serious about quality, I would wait the overnight cure time to be sure.

I just read some profiling instructions the other day that said 30 minutes.  I'd wait longer.  Most say overnight.

That said, your question is about delivery.  I normally wait 24 hours because I do not want them sticking it in a frame before it can dry and gas out.  I wait 8-10 hours before even taping it inside a mat so the paper has time to stabilize and flatten from being wet.

Just my work flow.
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Seth
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wingspar
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« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2009, 01:48:22 AM »

Bottom line, in my way of thinking, when I need to be serious about quality, I would wait the overnight cure time to be sure.

One last comment. I think it was one of our own posters on the forum here, Jack Winberg that told me to use a hair dryer (gentle heat applied to the emulsion) to speed the "curing" time. If memory serves me, I think we had good luck doing that.

Maybe Jack will chime in if he reads this.

I have always waited the 24 hours just to be on the safe side, and unless I hear different in this thread, Iíll continue to wait the 24 hours.  I think Iíve cut it short by 4 or 5 hours a few times, just to get the stuff in the mail so it would go out that day, but Iím uncomfortable doing that.

That said, your question is about delivery.  I normally wait 24 hours because I do not want them sticking it in a frame before it can dry and gas out.  I wait 8-10 hours before even taping it inside a mat so the paper has time to stabilize and flatten from being wet.

Just my work flow.

Itís been my work flow also, and will continue to be.  Itís just something Iíve always wondered about, so I thought Iíd ask the question and see what others thought.
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Gary
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wingspar
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« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2009, 01:49:35 AM »

Have to wonder what replies 2, 3, and 4 have to do with this thread???   Huh  Huh
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Gary
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2009, 07:07:56 AM »

A post in another thread got me to start this thread.  Iíve used the Epson Premium Semi-gloss paper for years.  Prints come off the printer dry to the touch, but the documentation that comes with the paper says that it takes 24 hours for the ink to cure, so Iíve always waited 24 hours before mailing prints, or letting the customer come by and pick them up.  Is this necessary, or can I deliver them within an hour or two after the prints come off the printer?

One of the problems with printed RC papers is what is called "outgassing". The glycols and glycerine in the ink medium can not evaporate through the back of the paper as the RC barriers block that direction. If a printed sheet is mounted in a frame with glass directly you could see condensation of the glycols and glycerine at the inside of the glass within a day depending on where it is displayed. Worse case is a heavy black in the print and sunlight on the frame. With non-RC papers this doesn't happen. Epson recommends to let the prints dry for some time with blotting paper on top before framing the print.

Color stabilisation will happen with pigment inks over a much shorter period than with dye inks. Dye inks tend to deviate in color even when dry due to changes in humidity levels and they are more prone to fading. This information is based on measurements on proof prints like done by Fogra. A nice example is the integrated spectrometer on the HP Z models. The pigment ink printed target is measured after 5 minutes drying. There is a choice to print the target and let it dry for much longer and have the spectrometer read the patches later but I have not seen much improvement in the profiles  that way.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
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wingspar
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« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2009, 05:24:42 PM »

One of the problems with printed RC papers is what is called "outgassing". The glycols and glycerine in the ink medium can not evaporate through the back of the paper as the RC barriers block that direction. If a printed sheet is mounted in a frame with glass directly you could see condensation of the glycols and glycerine at the inside of the glass within a day depending on where it is displayed. Worse case is a heavy black in the print and sunlight on the frame. With non-RC papers this doesn't happen. Epson recommends to let the prints dry for some time with blotting paper on top before framing the print.

Thanks for that info.  Had to Google RC paper to find out that it means Resin Coated Paper.  Iíll continue to let the prints cure for 24 hours.  Must be why I can use a rubber ink stamp on the front of the paper, but not on the back of the paper where I want to use it.

I remember reading about drying with blotter paper when I first got my 2200 back in 2004, but have never used it.  The only prints I have from when I first bought the 2200 have been in a portfolio book all this time, and they still look good.

A question on the blotter paper.  If I started using blotter paper, could I stack the prints with blotter paper in between them after they come off the printer?   My counter space is pathetic.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2009, 05:26:57 PM by wingspar » Logged

Gary
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2009, 10:07:01 AM »


A question on the blotter paper.  If I started using blotter paper, could I stack the prints with blotter paper in between them after they come off the printer?   My counter space is pathetic.

If you have no intention to frame the prints right away then I wouldn't bother about faster removal of the glycols etc.

Stacking with blotting paper wouldn't influence the blotting process. Keep the stack at a warm place.
Let the blotting paper air out the glycols etc if you want to use it again.
There have been discussions on the subject in Epson lists etc. The use of a microwave to speed up the process etc. I have no experience with that.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Dinkla Gallery Canvas Wrap Actions for Photoshop
http://www.pigment-print.com/dinklacanvaswraps/index.html
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wingspar
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« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2009, 05:11:39 PM »

Thanks.  I might do some research on blotter paper, but it sounds like it might have a one time use?   It does sound like Iíll continue to wait the 24 hours before delivery.
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Gary
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